Thursday, September 4, 2008

Framework

Three frames in three minutes.

1. The Subrosa Alameda:

FACTS: Rich Hirsch's signature ride. Super-steep 76 degree headtube and a somewhat sensical but awkward-looking laid-back seat tube. Removable mounts and guides, low standover, butted e'rything, lower wishbone, 13.5-13.75" stays, micro-AOD dropouts. 4.8 pounds.


OPINIONS: Hey, another laser-cut brake bridge. But what is it? How much weight, exactly, does cutting holes in the stay caps save? Because it ALWAYS looks stupid. I guess the steep head tube and the Fat Joe seat tube is supposed to make for a shorter bike that feels longer. I don't get it. Seat position doesn't make a bit of difference if you're just gonna slam it anyway, does it? (This frame does not appear to be compatible with 330mm seatposts.) Toptube length becomes more or less irrelevant. I feel like it matters more where the BB is in relation to the headtube, not the seat.




2. Hoffman B-Rad:


FACTS: Just what you see here, pal. Nothing about angles or anything. Seatstay brakes, integrated seat clamp (with captured nut), Guiri tab drilling, small (but not microscopic) dropouts, no headtube/downtube gusset, what appears to be somewhat standard geometry. Keep in mind it's a prototype.



OPINIONS: There don't appear to be any crazy holes drilled in it, and aside from the lack of headtube gusset it could be Anyframe. Although if it can hold up to Brad, I don't see there being a problem for mere mortals. I'm just happy there's an '09 Condor.




3. Tree Bikes Lil Buddy:


FACTS: Full post-weld heat-treated, 21" or 20.5", 74.5/71, 11.5" BB, 13.75" rear end, mid BB, Guiri tab drillings, seatstay mounts or none, internally-gussetted downtube, built-in SPC and chain tensioners, clearance for monster truck tires.

OPINIONS: It's hard not to love these goofy, bike-obsessed bastards. They've done things the right way, starting small and working their way up. No Taiwanese catalog parts here, just new ideas from a rider-owned and rider-run company. Some things have caught on (spline-drive sprockets) others haven't (thread-in barends), but their products all appear to be well thought-out and tested. The Lil Buddy looks fairly traditional, but you can bet that every aspect has been obsessed over—just look at all the renderings. Wish it used a regular seatclamp (you bastards!), but I guess you can't have everything.

•••••••••••••••••••••••

*guzzles Jack Daniel's*


34 comments:

Anonymous said...

FBM - Albert Street

Alan said...

Classic Young Ones clip. Good job!

Josh said...

Sorry for being old and uninformed but I don't know a lot about Tree. Do they make their own stuff in house?

Jeremy said...

Josh, re: Tree

Phil Wasson (FBM Vet. Pro, all-around goodfella), at Super Rat Machine Works does their sprockets. Not sure about other parts or their frames.

bobby p said...

i've been riding one of the sample tree frames since before the summer. the built in chain tensioners work amazing. you can tighten them with your fingers as opposed to a 2.5 or 3mm allen key that you can never seem to find when you get a flat. i was also bummed (more or less) that it came with an integrated seat clamp. but it is a captive nut so at least that is good.

as far as tree making stuff in house...pretty sure andy makes some chicken wings and meat loaf in house sometimes...

bobby p said...

to clarify a bit more...when tree started out it wasn't made in house, it was made "in-shed" in sam's machine shed. if you ever see same check out the gnarly magnesium burn on his hand from when he used to be prod-designer, sales, testing, quality control and machinist.

Anonymous said...

sam at tree doesn't have a father. way too fuck his day up asshole

g. edward jones, jr. said...

Supposedly that Subrosa is supposed to be long, but feel shorter, not the other way around. Still, you're right about the seat tube, it doesn't make a lot of sense for today's kids.

wds said...

Subrosa has info up on the Bash Bike. Complete with Bully-influenced graphics. As an ex-Bully owner, I totally want it.
As an ex-Bully owner, I want to run as far away from it as possible.
http://www.subrosabrand.com/features/bash/bash.html
-Bill

Josh said...

Thanks for all of the answers; looking for a new frame and always like to support the little (or at least smaller) guy that make their stuff here at home. I agree that it will be heartbreaking to have to let my old rusty FBM hose clamp go, but for some traditional geo and a 9" stand-over height I might be willing.

Duncan said...

Wow--I hope they're going to make those in 21" top tubes. I wanted a Bully so bad...I remember when the bike shop I worked at got them in. I was floored. For some reason I ended up getting a GT Aggressor bash bike. A bash slide feels good, no doubt about it.

marsi said...

little devil criminal mischief derek adams-marvin loetterle part

Russ said...

I meant to mention this in the entry, but about that Subrosa: if you got a 20" toptube version and set it up with a 2.25" front tire and 180mm cranks, would you have toeover problems?

Stephen said...

Brad Simms is the shit.

Period.

Russ said...

Brad Simms could probably bunnyhop over my head.

wds said...

Seriously. I Just got RF 16, after watching it, I'm convinced Brad Simms could hop a house.
-Bill

Anonymous said...

wrong video, marsi.

seek and destroy
baco 8
and more.

t.f.a. said...

some of you guys might dig this
http://albes.blogs.com
...while others will anonymously tell me what a stupid idea it is (i honestly don't think it is), what a dick i am (i'm not, really) and why everything you like is better than everything we do. it's okay, we understand. it's just what you, as new BMXers are supposed to do since the majority of the sport seems to be light, tight and ready to fight.

shad said...

there is a lot more to seat position than slammed or having some post.

Russ said...

The seattube on my 21" Ed is (I believe) the standard 71 degrees. Let's say you kicked it back to 69 and kept the BB in the same place. That would make the toptube longer. We'd keep the same headtube angle, same BB position, same chainstay length. Other than sitting further back, what would really change?

I suppose there's be some degree of front/rear weight balance issues, but not much.

Loop said...

I'm dying to see what one of these looks like built up.

I am also intrigued enough by the unusual geometry to over look the low stand over height and the holes in the stays etc.

It's nice to be excited about a something truely different, even if it turns out to be a failure.

James said...

I'm gonna be the first to say this...

Long top tube bike that feels like a short top tube bike, that sounds pretty cool to me!

Lots of top tube room for your knees to move around for tabletops, turndowns, etc, but still handling like a short bike...

How does that not make sense?

DBZ said...

I hopped on Rich's bike for a minute a while back, and it felt just like Andy Pecchenino's Sinfinite Cult frame. It feels like you're deeper into the bike cockpit, instead of hovering over it… I'm just stoked that it's actually different from all the cookie cutter generic frames out there.

tom/empire said...

i hope that RL shows up at Interbike so i can tell him that i charged people money to take pics of his bike when i guarded it at an AFA Masters comp in Austin when i was 13

when do the Homeless Mack tribute bikes roll out of the factory? i'll take two. coaster brake tab version only, thanks

why doesn't someone re-issue Super Pro rims? people drop $90 a rim these days without hesitation, so i'm sure some business-savvy soul could find a way to pump out a container of those and make a fortune

SolidDuke69 said...

why would you cap the stays then bother to cut holes in them... that makes absolutely no sense. It totally negates the job of the stay caps.

SQUAT THRUST PROLAPSE said...

PAYDAYBITCHES FUCKING LOVE THE YOUNG ONES!


NO FAGGOTS!

www.paydaybitches.blogspot.com

Rich said...

Yeah DBZ... I'm right with you guys on the lower top tube... It feels al little better but I'm not sure it's worth loosing the aesthetic that a taller bike has. The geometry just feels a little more like a bike with a shorter top tube since the wheelbase matches up to the next size bike down. Nothing to crazy just a bit different.

Anonymous said...

As far as the seat tube goes, Rich's new frame seems to give the same effect that you get with Mutiny's Burlish frame or the effect you would get when you bent your seat post back.

I rode a Burlish for a year and it was a pretty awesome feeling actually. The 69° seat tube that is. It felt like my DirtBike after I landed on my ass after missing a no footer and the cheap post I was using bent back about an inch.

My Burlish had a 21"TT, but after measuring the distance from the bb to the ht, it would roughly come out to a 20.75tt as far as bb to ht ratios go when compared to a 71° seat tube.

It's hard to describe the feeling, but I think it's a good one. The only drawback is if you pinch your seat for suicides or barspins, you have to dive the nose more. But that looks more awesome anyways.

manmade said...

Hey Russ... i know you got lots of bmx oldies and clothing... got one of the ones I posted on my blog? Check it out.

Russ said...

I don't have that one. Got a lot of damn BMX shirts, though. Like, a LOT.

manmade said...

Yea I think that 3/4 sleeve batch was out of George D's basement where he printed all the 256 stuff. I need 3 dressers with 22 drawers in total to house just my tshirts. I dont wear an eighth of them but cant part with em either.

Russ said...

I need to put a whole mess of stuff in storage. Either that or suck it up and get rid of a lot. I have some serious pack rat tendencies.

Anonymous said...

maybe the leaned-back seat-tube will help for clearance on no-footed cans... imagine that frame, coupled with the odyssey freestyle fork w/ brakemounts (orgasm)

youaintno said...

I rode a home made frame with a 77 degree head tube, 73 degree seat tube, 11.2" bb height, 20.75" top tube, 14.2" chainstays and 7" standover.

It was easily the most fun I've ever had on a BMX. Every other bike I've ridden has felt nearly identical. I'd like to see some companies try pushing the bb height a bit lower... It's really fun and different. Bunnyhops and manuals feel AWESOME.