Wednesday, July 22, 2009

Proper, Fucked

Because I said I was going to write about Proper today, I guess I'll be saving this for tomorrow.

Not that I really have a ton to write about Proper anyway. It's just that I saw their post on the Microlite parts, specifically the part about the front hub:
"It is tiny for a BMX hub with female axle (the current standard for front BMX hubs) and weighs less than many road bike hubs (at less than 200g). With colours to each every taste, it's no wonder that Proper has become synonymous with hub technology around the globe."
Aw, how cute! An eensy-weensy Marmoset. Look, contrary to popular belief, I have no problems with bicycle weight savings in general. I understand that 2001 has passed, and that new materials and new manufacturing processes have allowed companies to produce lighter products without sacrificing strength. I have no wish to go back to the days of Alex triplewalls and Eastern Herculi and Profile SS cranks, when bikes were bricks and men were broken.

But aren't we going far too far? This to this, yes, I get it. But we're going all the way to this, and everyone but Harrison Ford knows that's a terrible idea. Skipping seconds is fine. Not eating on days that end in "y" isn't. Which is basically where we're at now. The fat's long gone, now we're losing bone and muscle. Skeletons don't weigh much, but they're not very healthy, either.

And for a two-sentence blurb, that release is pretty fantastic. First, we have the assertion that the Proper front hub weighs less than many road bike hubs. OK. All well and good. But is that really desirable? I ride a road bike, and I wouldn't dream of running pegs on my front hub, even if you got rid of the quick release and the carbon fork. Then there's the implication that offering hubs in a wide variety of colors is the way to become a worldwide hub power. I'm sure that's not what they meant to say, but sadly, it's probably close to the truth.

43 comments:

Maxime Rousseau said...

I have the old Proper Microlite front hub, the one that doesn't have a female axle, I have no complaints.I think the switch to a female axle is a pretty good idea (because you know, why not?), but my main concern is bearing size.

G-French seems to have praised the use of bigger bearings on his hubs, for the obvious reason that they can hold up more impact. In the new Microlite, there doesn't even seem to be enough place to even PUT a bearing. However, the page does mention that the hub rolls on not 2 but 4 sealed cartridges.

Is it strong enough? Maybe. I still think the BMX industry as a whole needs to get their shit together as far as standardized testing goes. Most testing, or at least the testing I've heard of, involves telling people that it survived X period of time on Pro Rider Mr.Y's bike. We want numbers.

Leland said...

How have you not done a post about all the Mutant Bikes shit that floating around. The smiley clamp system? Ultimate in superfluosity. Keep up the good work Russ. T's??? I vote the clamp design

Russ said...

Mutant Bikes (that peg/guard combo????) is in the queue.

Meant to address the bearing issue on that hub, too as to why smaller/lighter causes more problems than it solves. Four bearings is fine and all, but that's what some Euros had, and they blew out, too.

Mark Westlake said...

"However, the page does mention that the hub rolls on not 2 but 4 sealed cartridges."

You know those bearings they replaced in the drivers in their rear hub (The ones they replaced with a ceramic bushing thing) because they always broke, just like they always break in every other 9t drivers? Those little bearings that couldn't handle being in a driver are now making your front wheel spin. 6802 or whatever they are - most people with Profiles and other hubs like that will probably know pretty well from the amount of times they've had to order new ones to replace their blown driver bearings...

Mark Westlake said...

Good Calista Flockhart burn too, haha.

brien said...

Am I the only one who thinks that logo is reminiscent of Chris Kings?

Anonymous Loves said...

smaller front hub + longer spokes = extra weight from 36 angles?

Anonymous said...

I'm just anxious to see where all this "innovation" will bottom out.

Look, if you wouldn't build a bmx wheel around a campagnolo record front hub, what justifies buying one smaller & lighter from a bmx company? The colors? If you wouldn't jump your roadbike, why build a bmx with roadbike parts? Retardation runs rampant.

...and by the way, Joe, there's some damn good welds coming out of Davenport, You still have their number, right? Oh... my bad.

You've been a great crowd, I'll be here all week. Remember to tip your bartender, and if you wanna fight, I'll be out back.

SeanMurphy said...

...and by the way, Joe, there's some damn good welds coming out of Davenport, You still have their number, right?

The number is 563-323-4894, info@standardbyke.com.

Thanks for the plug!

And the door, as they say, is always open to anyone and everyone who has a need.

Anonymous said...

If female axle design is "the current standard for front BMX hubs", as it says on the Proper website, is it only a matter of time before forks with front dropouts utilising a hole instead of a slot are also gonna become "the current standard"? If only ody had kept developing the old Xtro forks, we might've been there by now...

brien said...

^
WTP is attempting it, apparently, although their design is more of a take on the thru-axle design on downhill bikes. I don't see the donut-hole drop working though, as you'd have to completely remove the bolts from the hub anytime you'd need to take the wheel off.

kool aid said...

first...say anything bad about t-1 and i will un-favorite this site and never come back! its T-1.

and the welds i saw coming out of davenport werent looking any better. ive already heard of a few iowa dudes bending/breaking their "new" standards. standard is a race company. they have no presence in the freestyle/street/dirt world anymore.

who even rides for standard on the non-race side anymore? russ wadlin is the only dude who i can think of...

Anonymous said...

hey koolaide?

look at the welds on that T-1 frame, thats "terrible", no pun. hopefully that is not what the production stuff will look like. If you are a fan cool, but you dont know anyone who has dented or broken anything, you are hating, at least admit it to yourself.

if joe was smart he would have his bike made somewhere else, if he doesnt and puts out that garbage, he will probably get the same treatment as every company who puts out a suspect product. I dont think Russ favors anyone company over another, if you do, your drinking too much of that T1 koolaide.

kooooooollllll aaaaaiiiiid said...

i do know people who have fucked up the new standards already...ask them yourself. that wasnt a shit talk as much as it was a true statement.

and i never said the welds in that picture looked good. but i also didnt say anything bad about it either. new gb frame is awesome.

companies like t-1 need to never die. companies like standard have already died (in freestyle). rick shreds a bmx bike. but joe rich is better. isnt that what its all about anymore anyway? whoever is the best bike rider has the most dudes swinging from his nuts?

Anonymous said...

everyone is too quick to talk shit these days. "oh man that weld on a one off prototype looks weird that company is going down hill." fuck you. if terrible one was in a decline they would have been pumping out yearly batches of frames in horrible colors with minor gimmick improvements instead of not taking bmx marketing serious.

the day t1 starts doing shit like mutant is doing then you can feel free talk shit the second they do anything.

Anonymous said...

if your prototype looks like that, I feel for the production version. and that production of any kind, bikes cars, whatever.

joe rich is a nice guy and a good bike rider, he just has made a poor choice in choosing a manufacturer for his frames.

the implication that T1 takes their marketing serious is right on, they do. Now they just need to focus more on manufacturing.

Nick Ferreira said...

I'll be the first to say I don't know shit about welding but what is everyone flipping out about? the welds on the gusset? If so isn't it supposed to be angled like that, because it's on the top and bottom gussets.

Anonymous said...

My friend blew up his Proper Magnalite rear hub, and when I tore it down, I was amazed at the size of the bearings. Tiny. Now he runs an 11 tooth Twenty. I am running a Ratchet. Hopefully we are 'safe'. Confirmation word: reasisti !! Kinda like resist :)

t.f.a. said...

a fork with a hole (rather than slotted) drop out means more metal resulting in extra weight...the kids will never go for it!

bill said...

What would be really crazy is if people started doing freestyle on road bikes. haha. could you imagine how STUPID that would look? oh wait...

Anonymous said...

^^^ Thomas Edison filmed an adult in the 1800s "freestyling" on a road bike. I'm pretty sure people have been doing tricks on bicycles since the day it was invented, a little bit before it was only proper to do tricks on a child's BMX bike.

bill said...

^^^ Ya thanks, but I was referring to the fruit-cakes who ride the track bikes that have infested every city in america like cockroaches.

JETT! said...

To the guy a few posts up, koolaide...

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past five years, you'd understand that the line between race and freestyle frames/parts has been blurred beyond reason. Today, one could *and I have personally witnessed* feasibly race a "freestyle" setup and be at no less a disadvantage as anyone "freestyling" a race setup. Last I checked, this was bmx. You know, Bicycle MOTOCROSS.

Anonymous said...

there was a time in racing when light meant 24-25 pounds. that was probably 7-8 years ago, too.

Stern Hu said...

When are you all going to get over your made in the US mania and realise you can get just as good a frame made in Taiwan. And for the same price tag youll get post-weld heat treating.

Sean "Chunky" Combs said...

Dear russ. im just posting hoping you might agree with my statement and validate my opinions..... blah blah blah. Theese Standard (in every sense of the word) stooges sound like bunch of Jim Bobs and Sally Wankers jibber jabbering about how Fords and better than Chevys. Or that Jeff Gordon is better than Dale JR. "You see the welds on Jeffs car. He's going down hill. Can't be in the winners circle with welds like that" Just a bunch of nonsense from nonsensible people. hahahah SUCKERS. go ride you bike and do something postive.

G.S.GUCCILIFE said...

Man,the welds on my LENGHTY looks nice,i wonder if i will ever build it up....

ps:TFA,im after blue Odyssey's 7k,are you gonna carry 'em?

vw:brazing(believe it or not)

nikki said...

Chunky, et al...

Some of you people posting in here have a serious problem with Standard and Rick moliterno, why? I really dont understand it, please explain yourself so the rest of us get it. I dont ride one of their frames, I did years ago, but I can still recognize that they are dedicated to putting out a high quality made in the US product.

They were doing it when your only choice was GT or Haro, S&M wasnt doing freestyle, and those choices were bad. Is it because your loyality to T1 and the fact that some dude mentioned that Joe should have Stnadard make his frames you took it as an insult to what? T1, Joe, you personally dont be such a douchebag. There is huge difference in a product made in the US, quality control, guarantee on materials being used are what they claim, oversight. The same things that make Harley Davidson a top quality product. Standard should open their shop to other comapnies form frame production, and when these Taiwanese made 3lb frames start shearing off at the headtube (that is probably made of HT Steel)and companies have no other option of offer rtiders, they will wish they had an option for a top shelf product made in the US. There are other options than davenport, but if what we saw in that photo of the GB is the quality they are turning out, thats pretty sad.

You T1 fanboys need to acknowledge that. Quality craftsmanship = quality product, who ever makes it. If you cant put two and two together and figure that out, then keep your bullshit hating for this place

brien said...

we got a new Standard race frame at the shop the other day, and lets just say that the welds aren't up to Waterford standards(pun intended).

Anonymous said...

brien said...

So the owner of the shop sent it back?

that nikki dude was right

brien=T1 fanboy.

Ive read your blog and feel comfortable calling you a liar. No matter what you post after this, you are full of shit.

brien said...

nah, we didn't send it back. The welds weren't shit, but they weren't nearly as clean as the older bikes.
I actually like the cutouts in the Standard drops, but I wouldn't trust them on a street bike.

I also have no problem admitting I'm a T1/FBM fanboy, but I wouldn't ride the new GB frame, either.

brian said...

"You T1 fanboys need to acknowledge that. Quality craftsmanship = quality product, who ever makes it."


i totally understand that and i'm a little bummed about the welds, but i'm withholding judgement until i see production frames, not just a prototype.

Anonymous said...

OK guys. In regards to judging welds under powder coat: you really can't fully judge them once they are powder coated as the powder is not a consistent thickness on all areas of a frame, especially the welds. In regards to the GB T1 frame: prototypes are built to make adjustments as needed. Too see where we are at and go from there so the customer gets the bike with all of the bugs worked out. Sometimes on proto's the welder is dealing with a new weld pattern and isn't as smooth as he will be after 2, 5, or 500 of the same frame. I am sure the guys at Solid will nail these things. Let's have some fun here.

Rick Moliterno said...

Anonymous said...

OK guys. In regards to judging welds under powder coat: you really can't fully judge them once they are powder coated as the powder is not a consistent thickness on all areas of a frame, especially the welds. In regards to the GB T1 frame: prototypes are built to make adjustments as needed. Too see where we are at and go from there so the customer gets the bike with all of the bugs worked out. Sometimes on proto's the welder is dealing with a new weld pattern and isn't as smooth as he will be after 2, 5, or 500 of the same frame. I am sure the guys at Solid will nail these things. Let's have some fun here.

Sorry, I forgot to sign my post, just an FYI, if anyone has a question or a problems with any of our products, tell them to contact me directly at info@standardbyke.com or call 563-323-4894.

Thanks,

Rick

Anonymous said...

Will you sign my cast?

Anonymous said...

Rick-

So all of your custom frames since they have potentially different weld patterns will have sucky weld lines?
Also, that picture of you "working" the end mill is hilarious. Any machinist with a half a brain knows it is insanely dangerous and idiotic to use a machine with spinning parts while wearing gloves. Good way to get an appendage ripped from your body. Kind of shows you guys have very little experience running a machine shop and building the frames yourself.

You guys aren't even close to being in the same league as Waterford. Is Sean Murphy still cruising the pits at races wearing camo Shift gear and jock flinching people for you?

nikki said...

wow!

sounds like someone got their feelings hurt. arent you supposed to go on Maury or Jerry Springer for that shit.

maybe Russ can get a development deal. it would be kind of hard though since half of you people with beef are so committed to it you wont post your name?

didnt I tell you people earlier that i hate you, myself, and bmx was over on that other site?

Anonymous said...

Thank you for looking out for my well being. Sometimes I am working a couple of machines at once so it is my decision to remove the gloves from machine to machine or not. I am personally not a machinist (yet!) but I do help out in the shop as much as I can. By the way, that machine is not called an "end" mill.
In reference to the "sucky weld lines" I am not sure what you are trying to say for sure. In my post I was defending Solid by saying sometimes it can happen. It is not the norm. I apologize if that was confusing.
Waterford rocks. Anyone would have to bust ass to surpass their level. We just try to build good bikes. From what I see, we are doing that.
I appreciate the comments.
Rick

Anonymous said...

What Rick said. And the GB prototype, so the welds look sketchy. Well, no. They look like welds. But that's the first time I've heard anyone talk shit about Solid. They'll turn on you in second. Aaron Huff, Joe Rich and Rick Moliterno aren't the bad guys. Stern Hu: Ruben's frame is made in Taiwan now.

JETT! said...

Holy shit. BMX got serious for a second, there.

Anonymous said...

"...I guess I'll be saving this for tomorrow."
well i guess not. maybe we'll wait another month or so?

not a jock said...

i love every minute of this internet bickering. and i almost died when i read:

"Is Sean Murphy still cruising the pits at races wearing camo Shift gear and jock flinching people for you?"

i think standard invented the "jock flinch" about 4 months after they "invented" 1 1/8" head tubes for bmx bikes.

i live right by davenport iowa and all these comments are cracking me up. nobody rides standard frames anymore around here, even the guys with the standard tattoos (which is crazy!). our skatepark is less than 5 blocks from the standard factory and there are more kids at the park NOT on a standard than the other way around. not like the days of rampage when standard was cranking out quality stuff and everyone on the deck was rocking an earth toned sta or trail boss. now all i hear about is all their race stuff. i really do hope they make a come back in the freestyle world very soon, but i just dont see it happening. if they continue to lose the local support at the rate they are going, it will be hard for them to make a come back. its hard for me to think that standard will sell frames like hot cakes everywhere but iowa/midwest area. like i said, really hope they make a come back. its standard bykes for shit sake. they ran bmx for many years. i just dont see it happening. sorry rick and crew. it was a good run while it lasted. time for a real job.

verification: hungry hobo, I-74 bridge, terry swails, ryan from goodtimes.

Douglas said...

Please update.